Just in case some people don't know: the Redeemer does in fact care about where it hit's the target - in a specific way!

One could think that the Deemer simply deals the same damage to everything in it's radius, but that's completely wrong.

But the first thing is, that it damages things multiple times with a few seconds delay and increasing distance:

If the missile can't be spawned when being shot, due to lack of space, it will deal 500 damage to all Actors within a 400 UU radius with 100000 momentum.

If it can be spawned and explodes then, it will do the following (each with 2000000 momentum):
-Hurt all Actors in 250 UU distance with 200 damage.
-Wait 0.5 seconds.
-Hurt all Actors in 600 UU distance with 200 damage.
-Wait 0.2 seconds.
-Hurt all Actors in 950 UU distance with 200 damage.
-Wait 0.2 seconds.
-Hurt all Actors in 1300 UU distance with 200 damage.
-Wait 0.2 seconds.
-Hurt all Actors in 1700 UU distance with 200 damage.
-Wait 0.2 seconds.
-Hurt all Actors in 2000 UU distance with 200 damage.


So a veeeery fast vehicle can get away from the Redeemer explosion without taking all the damage.


But this "HurtRadius" does not simply catches all Actors in the radius and deals the same amount of damage. Instead does the damage falloff with the distance from the point where you hit the target to the target's center of mass. The exact calculation is this:
damageScale = 1 - FMax(0,(dist - Victims.CollisionRadius)/DamageRadius)
where dist is the distance from the hitlocation to the center of the Actor. Another important thing that can be derived from the function is that the smaller the collision radius of the target is, the less damage will it receive.


Just so that we are all on the same level when it comes to "where is the best spot to drive my Deemer missile into the enemy core?". The best spot is the side of the core at half it's height, the second best is the middle of the top.

So you just thought you'd paste part of another post you made at another msg board without any context for it whatsoever and people would just go, "oh, okay, thanks"? You're odd, mr. Lacoste.

Anyway, while we're on the subject, the pseudocode you posted seems to suggest there's no point trying to take cover from a nuke blast wave behind non-static elements, such as a big tank or a turret. For example, even if the mino you're hiding behind is at max health, if a nuke explodes at the other side it will kill you even if the tank does survive, correct?

Oh, also, if it's not too much trouble, can you dig up the relevant code for how the mino and balista shots work as well as the 2 guided arbalest missiles? Since none of those vecs seem to have their code set in stone, but rather always mylevel'd and therefore potentially different from map to map, a code sample from a popular map they're in would do it, I guess. Cheers.

pegasus_ wrote:
You're odd, mr. Lacoste.

Epic ...

The context isn't necessary. I just found the info myself and thought it would be nice to share, so that at least the players who read this forum from time to time know how to efficiently use the Deemer on the enemy core. They might be my teammates at that time.

You are mostly right with the hiding behind non-static elements: FastTraces only return True if they hit World Geometry. (My barricades in Downtown are World Geometry as well, though they are not static. You can see by shooting them with the Flak. If something "swallows" the projectiles, it's not World Geometry.)


For the Mino it's interesting to see that it has been tweaked to react differently on different DamageTypes:

It takes 5 times more damage from bio globs and only 80% from Manta fire, Cicada rockets, Raptor plasma and Flak chunks and only 70% damage from shock beams.

Momentum is reduced to 10% in any case.



There is nothing really special about the Mino's shots. It just adding some ViewShake to the damaged player.

Strangely are the properties not really looking like what I expected from the Mino. Maybe it has some special scaling somewhere, but I couldn't find any.

Damage: 350
Radius: 1900
Speed: 19000
MaxSpeed: 19000
MomentumTransfer: 600000

It's the Omnitaur from Valerna.



The Arbalest takes only 80% damage from Manta fire, but that's all.
It's Nova Missile is btw supposed to be reloaded 240 seconds after it was fired, but something goes wrong in replication there.

A "small" Redeemer from the arbalest does a maximum of 133 damage. The scale values I mentioned for the normal Redeemer still apply.
It has a radius of 2000 as well.
The MEGA-Guided-Warhead does 500 damage instead, same as a normal Redeemer, but that this one has a radius of 2000 instead of the Deemer's 400.


The Ballista does 400 damage at 2000 radius. It doesn't has any resistances to certain weapons.

crusha_k_rool wrote:
[...]the players who read this forum from time to time know how to optimally use the Deemer on the enemy core[...]Fixed.

Speaking of different game elements as cover against nuke damage type, 2 other, more strange ones, come to mind now that I'm curious about: breakable obstacles and Kobjects. Suppose the summon command allowed me to spawn a few dozen rubber duckies from MasterShower or a truckload of bounceable balls from your CataldiPark and I hid behind the pile. Would a nuke exploding at the other side of it do any less damage to me? What about piling up a ton of those breakable road barrier thingies (I think they have some HP, but they're ridiculously few)? I don't believe they're karma objects, but they *are* (a respawnable) part of world geometry, no? Same thought experiment with those; what happens?

Edit: what about lifts? I'm directly below a lift and a nuke explodes on top of the platform as it's coming down, close to me. Do I die? Does it depend on the platform's collision attributes?

You couldn't even spawn the rubber duck right away because you could only spawn the KActor, with it's default properties, that means without any mesh. Same with the balls. And they swallow projectiles, if I remember right, so they are no World Geometry.


The barricades are bNoDelete in script, that means also that they can't be spawned dynamically. But yeah, they would probably hold away some damage if you crouch behind them and if they would survive long enough. I gave them 500 HP so that they are for sure finished when a Redeemer explodes near them. And then I chained them together so that if one dies, all die.
They are no KActors, they are more a subclass of Decoration, like the exploding barrels. But that doesn't really mean a lot since I don't use any of the Decoration stuff and tweaked many of the default settings. They are more supposed to be like StaticMeshes that can dynamically change the mesh attached to them if they take enough damage, but other than that are they more considered "static", although they are not in order to be able to update the mesh at all. And even that requires some hacking in re-initializing the Karma collision for the changed mesh.


Not sure about Movers. They could be save, since they don't swallow projectiles.

crusha_k_rool wrote:

The MEGA-Guided-Warhead does 500 damage instead, same as a normal Redeemer, but that this one has a radius of 2000 instead of the Deemer's 400.


U're sure for mega arbalest nuke ? coz one day I hit a core with it, and it deals enough damage to reduce life's core to 17, whereas a normal deemer takes only 17 lifes point ...

A few mino things I forgot to discuss yesterday:
crusha_k_rool wrote:
[...]For the Mino it's interesting to see that it has been tweaked to react differently on different DamageTypes:

It takes 5 times more damage from bio globs and only 80% from Manta fire, Cicada rockets, Raptor plasma and Flak chunks and only 70% damage from shock beams.

Momentum is reduced to 10% in any case.[...]If Gorzakk designed the mino this way, these rules seem profoundly stupid to me. I get the intent to give the vehicle some weakness (and therefore convince ppl there's some semblance of "balancing" effort put up during its beta stage) and trying to achieve that by increasing a particular damagetype's effectiveness against it, but he himself gave the damn thing 2000HP to begin with! Why mess around with damagetypes instead of just reducing that to a more sensible value and leave all weaps working as ppl expect them to? This is some cheap bullshit, if you ask me and it's not like attackers start with a bigger chance of success against that monstrosity either, esp. when it's fully loaded. Anyway, I did a few bio gun tests against parked omnitaurs today and they do seem to come down very fast if you spray goop with primary fire, but avoid amassing them. 2000hp gone in less than 4 secs, that's impressive!

Btw,
crusha_k_rool wrote:
[...]There is nothing really special about the Mino's shots. It just adding some ViewShake to the damaged player.

Strangely are the properties not really looking like what I expected from the Mino. Maybe it has some special scaling somewhere, but I couldn't find any.

Damage: 350
Radius: 1900
Speed: 19000
MaxSpeed: 19000
MomentumTransfer: 600000

It's the Omnitaur from Valerna.[...]I rarely do (or ask) anything at random and my question about the mino's shot was no exception. See, I remember reading some months ago a thread at omni's msg board where I believe it was mentioned that a single mino shot scripted to cause >1800hp of damage would cause the rolling camera/viewport bug to happen very often, so what they did was just change the code so the tank fires 3 shells, each causing 800hp at the same time and using the same trail and emitter effect, so, in effect, desired result achieved. If you can find anything that corroborates that I'd be very interested to know it's a fact since, obviously, we know the mino doesn't only do 350hp splash damage. Another problem with such "research" for me is, try as I might, I can't do it alone :/. I've tried loading up maps in UEd and looking through all likely classes' script code for these values, but to no avail; most are just empty inheritance classes. I'm not familiar with the process of extracting the relevant .uc resources from the map, which is where I suspect they are (does it involve a ucc command? I tried that too), so since you seem to already be doing this, plz offer some brief instructions for that so anyone interested can start digging around and comparing stuff. Thanks.

I don't extract the files, don't know if I could actually since they are myleveled. What I did was typing in
editdefault class= OmnitaurRocketProjectile
and in the "None" section will it show me the values all spread between all other variables that are not public available.
I looked up the name of the class in the ACB as subclass of Projectile.

To find out more about the actual process when the projectile is fired, you need to look into subclasses of ONSWeapon (subclass of Actor), as those are the turrets that are controlled by the driver whereas ONSWeaponPawn (subclass of Vehicle) are the weapons that are controlled by a separate passenger.

Aside from the editdefault command which I didn't know about and is now also part of my quiver (thanks), I was aware of everything else you mentioned; I've been messing about with the editor for years myself .

Anyway, seems this latest curiosity was the incentive I needed to figure out the export procedure, which, turns out, is fairly simple, straightforward and much more helpful than ingame popped-up non-fullscreen displayable UEd-styled menus. Just go to the ACB's File menu and select "Export All Scripts". It will export 'em all rebuilding the classes tree as a directories tree at the main UT folder and from there you can simply grab 'em all and move 'em to whatever other place you want to study them.

Right, on with the info:

ONS-CBP2-Valarna-BadWolf-V1tc-_OmnitaurCannon.uc wrote:
[...]
defaultproperties
{
ProjPerFire=3
SpreadStyle=SS_Random
YawBone="TankTurret"
PitchBone="TankBarrel"
PitchUpLimit=9000
PitchDownLimit=61500
WeaponFireAttachmentBone="TankBarrel"
WeaponFireOffset=200.000000
RotationsPerSecond=0.070000
Spread=0.005000
RedSkin=Texture'Omnitaur_Tex.OmnitaurRed'
BlueSkin=Texture'Omnitaur_Tex.OmnitaurBlue'
FireInterval=3.000000
EffectEmitterClass=Class'myLevel.OmnitaurFireEffect'
FireSoundClass=Sound'Minotaur_Sound.Minotaurcannon'
FireSoundVolume=1100.000000
RotateSound=Sound'Minotaur_Sound.Minotaurturret'
FireForce="Explosion05"
ProjectileClass=Class'myLevel.OmnitaurRocketProjectile'
ShakeRotMag=(Z=250.000000)
ShakeRotRate=(Z=2500.000000)
ShakeRotTime=10.000000
ShakeOffsetMag=(Z=11.000000)
ShakeOffsetRate=(Z=300.000000)
ShakeOffsetTime=15.000000
AIInfo(0)=(bTrySplash=True,bLeadTarget=True,WarnTargetPct=0.750000,RefireRate=0.800000)
Mesh=SkeletalMesh'ONSWeapons-A.HoverTankCannon'
}

ONS-CBP2-Valarna-BadWolf-V1tc-_OmnitaurRocketProjectile.uc wrote:
[...]
defaultproperties
{
Speed=19000.000000
MaxSpeed=19000.000000
Damage=335.000000
DamageRadius=1900.000000
MomentumTransfer=600000.000000
MyDamageType=Class'myLevel.OmnitaurKill'
ExplosionDecal=Class'myLevel.OmnitaurRocketScorch'
DrawType=DT_StaticMesh
StaticMesh=StaticMesh'WeaponStaticMesh.RocketProj'
AmbientSound=Sound'VMVehicleSounds-S.HoverTank.IncomingShell'
LifeSpan=1.500000
AmbientGlow=250
FluidSurfaceShootStrengthMod=10.000000
bFullVolume=True
SoundVolume=255
SoundRadius=2000.000000
TransientSoundVolume=1.000000
TransientSoundRadius=1000.000000
bFixedRotationDir=True
RotationRate=(Roll=50000)
DesiredRotation=(Roll=30000)
ForceType=FT_Constant
ForceRadius=100.000000
ForceScale=5.000000
}

Turns out we were both right. 3x335=1005hp of damage per shot, which (assuming it isn't specially vulnerable to the mino's damagetype) explains why a full health bio/firetank can live survive one mino shell, if only barely (185hp left).

More interesting stuff as I come upon them (or you can just ask if you're wondering about something, now that I know how to dig it up).